Karoshi MSX Community

Well, MSXdev'13 is over (with 6 neat productions!), and it is time for discussion. Here I will suggest my preferred specs for the MSXdev'14, before hearing contestants' opinions, and some reasons why I choose them:

- ROM Size: Go back to 32KB/48KB ROM (no mapper ROM, allowing 16KB RAM). With 16KB ROM lots of developers finally felt too bounded by game size: also, some developers needed to remove things for the MSXdev entry that will be added to the final version of the game due to size limitations. So going for non-megarom would make developers feel more confortable with size without entering into a big megarom project.

-Voting system: I think this point deserves its own thread. Last edition voting system was a mess: also people went mad, and I had to deal with users attempting to create multinicks for multiple votes, first-posters wanting to be registered asap just to drop their votes to their friends and never be back, etc. Hope next time you people (devers and users) calm down and let the contest results be as natural as they can be. Also, it was not a good idea to see the actual progress of the voting, as checking entry current positions can alter your voting order too if you feel some entry has been underrated, etc. So my suggestion here is to cast votes by sending a private forum message with the votes to an user created for this matter, with the same format as last edition (1,2,3 points), and they will be computed and later revealed, when voting period ends.

- Deadline: 1 year instead of 6 months (that has been also requested by contestants). First, to have more time. Second, not to overlap #msxdev compo 2013 deadline, a contest you *should* consider entering if you aim for an MSX2 production or higher game sizes.

- Prizes: taking in account the "success" of the sponsorized prizes, I would leave them out and just focus into a main prize created by donations (last edition amount, 333 euro, was a pretty cool amount for a winner!).

- Others: for the rest I would leave the contest as it was. I mean running it into the forum boards, the registering system, the entry thread self-mantainment, not requiring a game sticker, etc.

Well it is time for you to suggest. Although I've got things pretty clear, I want you to drop here a line and contribute with your opinion and reasons why! Let the MSXdev'14 begin!

Thank you for starting this post, Jon.

From my POV, everything about this edition was fine, but I totally agree that the forum-based voting system was messy. Maybe we can look for an automated survey tool, like Google or even Facebook. Of course, that will not help with the "voting friends" issue.

Regarding technical specs, you know me well: if it does not require a mapper it suits me.

In any case, due to my current workload, I sincerely doubt that I could join the contest :(

All seems reasonable  :)

In general I agree with the suggestions  :D, but I'd want to add two points to be discussed:

• Perhaps it would be interesting that the prize were shared by the two or the three best contestants in some percentage (For example 60,30,10)... will it encourage more and best games were sent?
• And for transparency, once finished the voting, all the individual votes were published together the user forum nick.

Agree on both. Perhaps the separated prize is a good idea, so the prize is shared by top three... on the other hand, the big prize for the winner will decrease and thus be less atractive. Anyway, neat initiatives, let's see if people agree on those!

Another idea for the votes:
Only users with, at least, 50 or 100 posts (or xxx) on the forum can vote.  This will avoid fake/troll votes.

If users from the other comunity/forum (msx.org) want to vote, and have enough posts there (50 or 100), they can vote, but they must comunicate their intention by posting here a message and, then, posting the same message on a specific thread on the msx.org forums.

Votes results cannot be readed until the deadline for votes.  The idea proposed by Jon is good.

Games must work on MSX TurboR...

Makinavaja

I think it is important that the contest is open to everybody, but if the majority of comments on this edition were written by Spanish people, this thread may be in Spanish.

As you can see my English level is low and this text is taken from the Google translator.

Efectivamente, yo no posteo nada por aquí porque no sé inglés. Y nadie debería estar obligado a saberlo. Y "manda cullons" que tengamos que hablar en inglés siendo todos por aquí un 99% españoles... No sé, a mí me gusta mi lengua, leñe.  ;) ;) ;) ;)

Saludos!!

S0y, Tragamanzanas: If we want to attract international users, the use of english at the MSXdev zone is a must. Also the MSXdev contests, since their foundation in 2003 have been held in english. I love my language, but if the mrc decide to held them challenges in dutch it would be a huge barrier too... I really think we should keep it in english, although last two editions just spanish games entered the contest.

De acuerdo, pero creo sinceramente que no debería tampoco prohibirse el uso del español. Nuestro idioma es también muy internacional. No sé, es tan solo una propuesta para que podamos expresarnos los que no sabemos inglés. A ver lo que opina la gente...  :'(

Saludos!!

I am the first to think that the contest must attract international users, but as I said in the previous post and so well said SOY, most are Spanish and it has noses that have to be us who have to use translator.   
I'm not saying ban it (besides the rules are in English)
At least I think it would be good that people to give their opinion on this matter.

How do you feel when you find a post in dutch in msx.org? Well, the same goes here for non-Spanish speaking people visiting this forum. If we confine MSXdev to Spanish that will prevent non Spanish speaking developers from joining it.

There is plenty of space in the forum to talk in Spanish: most of the forum actually is in Spanish. Therefore, if you want to discuss the MSXdev'14 rules in Spanish, you are free to open a new thread there and comment whatever you want to say. But this thread, as the official one, should remain in English, please.

I agree with most of your view regarding this, but it is not a matter of "Spanish is an important language", but a matter of simple, direct politeness.

So, from now on, please remain on topic: what are your suggestions for MSXdev'14?

NADIE está limitando ni quiere limitar la MSXDev al español, faltaría más. Lo que se está limitando es hablar en español aquí, cosa curiosa. Pienso que "facilitar" no implica "impedir" a otras partes.

Visitad el "thread" del año pasado, por ejemplo, a ver cuántos users de habla no hispana han posteado. Con los dedos de una mano, vamos. Y si eso implica a los hispano-parlantes no poder expresarse en español... En fin, que no quiero cabrearme pensando en elitismos ni otro tipo de tonterías, al fin y al cabo esto es una afición. Tan solo quería expresar mi punto de descrepancia y de injusticia sobre ello. Si no se permite postear en español, pues no posteo nada y punto, norma cumplida.  :'(

Saludos!!

If you prefer you can post your message twice , first in Spanish, and then using some translator to transtale it to English.

MSXdev is international, every edition's official language has been english since 2003, and it should remain like this.

Not only contest rules and official announces always have been done in english, but also the game instructions are to be presented in english (although, of course, you can also add spanish intructions as a bonus, the use of spanish is not forbidden once you provide the same texts in english). No matter if we did not gather attention from international users, or the number of international users that posted last edition: as pitpan have just pointed, we must keep the contest official language as it has always been to keep it appealing to international users just in case they decide to join.

Although we appreciate your suggestion, unfortunately this is something that's pretty clear for us :-[.

What about eight months instead one year ???

I didn't though some people want to influence the voting system. That's so sad.

Ehm... double the KBs, double the time? ;). Nah, just for a simple reason: because every MSXdev had a duration of 1 year, except the 8KB and 16KB ones. Also the deadline will be again really close to a possible BCN RU date, and perhaps something can be done in cooperation with AAMSX (even announce the winners there?... mmm).

Your proposal seems always so reasonable, Jon! I also agree with Makinavaja: I would limit the voting to the users with a minimum number of posts. This is agains myself  :P, but I believe is quite fair.

On the other hand... why limit the ROM size? If any team want to work on a 128 kb project it's great! Let's encourage them!

I would like to use this post also to offer my little help to any team. I don't have any technical knowledge, but may be I can help with manuals, translation into English, level design or tests. Whatever. Feel free to send me a private.

Hi!

- ROM size: I like it 32/48KB instead of 16KB. Going 32KB is very straighforward from 16KB (specially with asmsx), so you can focus on the code instead of optimizing for size, removing things, compression/decompression, etc. Going 48KB adds an extra complexity, but it's up to the contestants to cross that line ;)
- Price: I love the 60/30/10% distribution proposed by Mortimer.
- Deadline: I like both "main" opinions 6 months / 1 year as long as the deadline doesn't collide with real life "busy" moments (like christmas or new year's eve). Making it match RUMSX or other MSX events sounds cool :D
- Voting system: I'd prefer a score-based system instead of the current points-based system. It's more fair and its results are less discorageous to the non-winners. But I admit it's harder to manage :/

Finally, what about a double deadline? It's a pity that many of the bugfixed versions didn't get into the contest. What about "forcing" a public version one week before the deadline? Or having one extra week after the deadline to solve bugs (and just that)? Any other suggestion to avoid the "last minute" problems?

Hi, my opinions:

- ROM size: 32/48KB is better of 16KB. Anyway I'd allow any size/mapper. It adds extra complexity, but it's up to the contestants to cross that line  ;)
- Deadline: IMHO having the deadline during  holidays like Christmas or new year's eve is a good idea. People on vacation has more time to code and/or judge the entries.
- Stay in English: the msx pool is already very small, going to Spanish would kill the msxdev definitely

Reading every suggestion, thnx everyone for taking the time. And for the others: speak now or forever hold your peace!

I agree with some of the suggestions, but others not at all:

- ROM SIZE: go back to 32/48KB ROM will let all developers be more comfortable. It was a challenge to make something
  very limited, but I think that it's a good idea to again let bigger size.
- Deadline: it's alright. No overlaping with others contests and more time.
- Prizes: as Mortimer said could be a good idea to share the prizes with the two or three best contestants. It's necessary
  to think about the percentages, but it's a good idea.
- English/Spanish: I understand people think that the thread of the contest might be in spanish (my english is terrible).
  But on the other hand I agree with the idea of use of english for it. If we want to be opened to all contestants, not
  only spanish, we need to continue using english. Of course, we need to advertise on other forums and webs to "spread
  the word". There isn't problem to open another thread in spanish to talk about the games/projects, although the main
  thread might be in english.
- Voting System: I agree that voting system need some twist. Only show the result after deadline of the vote seems a
  good idea. Only letting to vote to users with more than 50 (or 100) posts seems reasonable, but for example,
  I couldn't vote!!  :P any user or developer with few posts could not vote. And "voting friends" would not disappear.
  So I think it is necessary another ideas of improvement.
- Double deadline: as TheNestruo say, it could be a way to avoid last minute errors. The second deadline could be only
  one day (or two) later, so little errors could be fixed, not let to fix big errors or add new features.

There must be some exceptions where no matter how many posts they have.  For example:
-Current dev Contestants : For example, a new user in the comunity with few post that creates a new game for the dev.
-Previous dev Contestants : nenfranz, for example
-Sponsors: All those who helps with the prizes.
-Well know MSX comunity guys: Users that everybody knows but they're not present on forums.  For example, konamiman.  He doesn't post here frequently, but everybody knows him and trust the "leader of society"
-Etc... etc...

Makinavaja

Well...
My POV:
ROM Size : 32/48 perfect
RAM Size : 16  perfect (I never use more than 4-5 ;)  but maybe sometime)
Voting System : I'd like Secret vote and people who really love msx and be honest. No friendships votes. I don't know how to do it good. Maybe...well, when I was main organizer in BCNparty (demoscene event) only contestants could vote (in secret). We can do this for win money price and a public vote (in secret too) for special mention.
Deadline: a year perfect...and If It's close (but before) any RUMSX in barcelona , we can do something special form AAMSX. I love this idea.
Prizes: donations sponsoring perfect...maybe, do 70%,30%,10% for three first positions is good. We did the same at BCNParty.
Language: English is good (ever we like it or not) for can comunicate. If you are not good , use automatic translation and leave your mother language too. Any user always do and try to write in spanish for comunicate with us in this forum :) Please don't be closed minds and do this effort :)

Google translator copy in Spanish :

Bueno ...
Mi Punto de vista:
Tamaño ROM: 32/48 perfecto
Tamaño de RAM: 16 perfecto (yo nunca uso más de 4-5 Wink pero tal vez en algún momento)
Sistema de votación: Me gustaría voto secreto y la gente que realmente aman a MSX y ser honesto. No hay amistades votos. No sé cómo hacerlo bien. Tal vez ... bueno, cuando era el principal organizador de bcnparty (evento demoscene) sólo concursantes podían votar (en secreto). Podemos hacer esto por el precio de dinero y ganar un voto público (en secreto también) una mención especial.
Plazo: un año perfecto ... y si está cerca (pero antes) cualquier RuMSX en barcelona, podemos hacer algo especial AAMSX formulario. Me encanta esta idea.
Premios: donaciones patrocinadoras perfecta ... tal vez, hacer 70%, 30%, 10% para los tres primeros puestos es bueno. Hicimos lo mismo en bcnparty.
Idioma: Inglés es bueno (el que nos guste o no) para se comunicar. Si no está bien, utilizar la traducción automática y dejar su lengua madre. Algún usuario siempre lo hacen y tratar de escribir en español para comunicar con nosotros en este foro Smiley favor, no seas mentes cerradas y hacer este esfuerzo Smiley

Reading every suggestion, and I must say I mostly agree (except on accepting megarom, I really think that's too much difference with latest edition, and those wanting more horsepower can always join #msxdev compo). I'll let this post roll until the end of this week to gather more opinions (if any): then, it will be time to announce the dev again! :-)

Consider also that a number of msx1 megaroms might lay unfinished from previous msxdev competitions in the HD of some teams ...

You have a point here, but still I'm not into including megarom in THIS UPCOMING edition... Anyway, I will start a couple of polls, about ROM size and voting system, to check opinions out there about those two particular matters ;-).