Karoshi MSX Community

Does not work, appear to be offline...

Dunno, prolly maintenance or something. Last week there was a mailbomb. I wouldn't worry about it.  :D

Here 2 good alternatives to MRC :

http://www.msxposse.com

http://www.passionmsx.org

yea sure..  :-\

"where FUD, disrespect and bad taste is born"

otoh, what do I care about a handful o' loonies

Better a loony than a brainwashed propaganda-lover.

Read again, Wolfie. mars2000you offered 2 links to SEPPASEPPA as an alternative to MRC when he noticed MRC was down, but he did not mention a thing about MRC: that's why I don't see the point of you attacking posse or passion. Yeah, these are MSX communities too, as Karoshi forums are (there can be more than one, you know  :P ). So please don't try to start a fight here, as mars2000you did not started a thing, ok?.

So, you mean I've been saying things about those websites which aren't true?  ;D

MSX Posse and Passion MSX are nice communities, each one with its points of view and filosophy. It is in comments like the last you posted where FUD, disrespect and bad taste can be easily found :P. Is there really a point to react like you did?. Man, it was just one person givin' alternative links for MSX news and such! :whip:

I want a straight answer: "yes" or "no", not a whole story.

So, again: "So, you mean I've been saying things about those websites which aren't true?"

As I've said, yeah, they are nice communities so I think that what you've said is not the truth. It is just your opinion. I don't agree with some msxposse or passion msx reactions, opinions and comments, just as I don't like some others at the MRC: and that does not mean that I think those communities are based on disrespect or bad taste. If you don't like posse or passion and the opinions in there, just live with it, but *again* do not start the flame just when some URLs are suggested (hint=that's not polite).

so, if that's a 'yes' then here's what I was aiming for: (and I try not to flame, really)

If my text is seen as untrue, then I could also mention a few ppl who deliberately yell untrue things about MRC. Such as the endless linking to Bazix. I could mention a mars posting that DRM bull on 2 places on each forum (news and forum), hoping no-one will miss it. (who was talking about propaganda now eh!)

Dudes, I'm *not* part of Bazix, another 11 MRC webmasters/translators aren't either. And it'll be a matter of time and snout is the only MRC admin who's also part of Bazix. He can't leave MRC for obvious reasons: it's mainly his site anyway, he's the most routined newsharvester from all of us.
*If* the ppl I mentioned *stop* their bull towards MRC (and I'm not asking you ppl to *like* MRC if you don't) then I will stop outputting bull about the two mentioned websites. If the typical "MRC/Bazix/Snout" expressions/combinations don't go away from now on, then that makes me fully entitled to say whatever I want to say about Posse & PassionMSX or individual persons, anywhere I want, in any under-the-belt style I see fit. I think that's actually a reasonable trade to consider, not that this trade had to be here in the first place, but judging the situation I'd say a trade is the most reasonable solution at this moment.

So, I'm again *not* asking you to:
- like MRC
- like Bazix
- like Woomb
- like the concept of virtual MSX (which summarizes having games in this new Woomb format, you know what I mean, do you?)

Face it: we've become to not like you, and for quite a while you don't seem to like us. Well, inside MRC no one cares a f*ck, really.

The only things I'm asking, as reasonable as I can, is to:
- 'leave it' if you don't 'love it', and don't try to break things or hurt personal feelings (no need to explain that here eh), no-one gains anything with it. No one is forcing you to buy woomb games if you don't like the way they're presented. And if you want an English Xak1 on your MSX, then gain a license from Microcabin and do it yourself.
- divide MRC and Bazix. I know it's in vogue lately to think that they're the same, and I can't come up with a way to convince you they're not, but they're not. Who are you to think they are linked anyway?

This trade proposal can't be too bad, right? (Especially in the light of surrounding people in the MSX-scene who don't care a hoot either about the whole feud.)

So, what will the answer be? Burying or sharpening the axe?


Oh, and if someone doesn't agree on any of the ingredients of the issue: don't yell and don't give me empty words. Give me facts I can test/balance, not unfounded assumptions and other weird nothingness no single soul can interpret. This forum has one particular thread like that already, and that should be enough.


viejo: this story was not aimed at you or this forum, but I was more or less opting for these replies (so yes: I abused your casa a bit). If you want to spam me some more about this, you know where to catch me. :P

So, Apple boss and EMI boss are not respectable people for you ???

But of course, their strategy is very annoying for all DRM "fans", including Bazix. And the fact that as MRC moderator, you consider these news as bullshit is another proof that MRC=Bazix.

I won't answer for the rest as it is the usual MRC bullshit. Sorry, but since you are MRC moderator, you think only by Snout's mind ! What a pity !  :'(

But of course you aren't going to answer anything, that would've been the event of the millennium.

And I was not talking EMI or Apple anyway, I was talking about this:

"Such events should incite MRC/Bazix/Woomb to remove DRM from the Woomb products (re-releases for PC of MSX games, eventually translated in English) ! It should be a real sign of respect for the wishes of the MSX community."

1 - read my post above about the linking of MRC and Bazix.
2- who are you to decide what a company should do? Do you show any respect to that? Do you show any respect to Compile, Microcabin, T&E etc. etc. who wish to re-release these games in this format? Go complain in Japan @ the door of MSXA.
3 - "the MSX community"? You think are you speaking on behalf of everyone and their mother?

Too big story to finally make that big post for mars ;)... imho you should solve this privately, but hey!, it is up to both of you to keep the discussion here. But keep in mind that if you discuss your MRC/passion/bazix/mars/wolfie/bananas troubles here, please keep it polite, or I will be forced to throw you a huge amount of olives.

mars2000you & Wolf_ > :spank: < viejo_archivero

Anyway, have fun!. Now I'll enjoy my last holiday night! ;). Gnite all, and remember that we are here just for fun! (or, at least, me)

but I'm not flaming :P I'm merely trying to:
- solve things
- ask for arguments (which I'm not getting, as per usual, what else is new)

I'm against all forms of DRM, in each concerned sector (music, video, software, ...). It's a principle position and it's my right to have this position.

The fact that big bosses of Apple and EMI have changed their mind about DRM is a great moment. Finally, they have understood that they can AT THE SAME TIME sell more online music and respect the wishes of the buyers, what concern the copies for private using.
Read again this part from the conference with EMI :
"Steve Jobs says that they are offering people nothing more than what they get when they buy a cd directly and rip it"

So, from my point of view, Aiky and other companies (just like Sony and Warner at the moment) do not respect the buyers ... and the buyers are mainly the MSX community. What is asking this community for ? DSK/ROM files .... so, it supposes no more DRM especially. And I'm pretty sure it will come some day. But maybe only after many years of negative attitude from the software companies.

ok, I propose a new website

www.msxflamer.net

where everyone can fight hard in eachothers face and be as full on with whatever they want to say

first person to get successfully sued for libel or slander (bonus for both) wins (a hefty legal expense)

I feel this is the only way

karoshi forum is the happy  :D smile place

no really, it is.

(still don't like steve jobs tho)

But the record labels etc. sell to everyone. Their target-audience is everyone. Bazix does not aim at MSX users specifically, they aim at a target that is *not* you. The target they aim for doesn't care a flying hoot about what you think, they just want to play a game, period.
The music industry is also a number of magnitudes larger than the 8-bit/retro community, so to compare those two doesn't make sense.

btw, this isn't classified info or so, it's either from the Bazix website or it has been written on MRC once, I'm not going to backtrack all of it. (just before you start thinking I know this because I *am* Bazix)

So, you're requesting that Aiky, Microcabin, T&E etc. should give up the DRM? That's a rather funny idea coming from someone who's around on sites with the mbox link on it..
Anyway, as said: write to them instead.

"What is asking this community for ?"

Let's first define the scale of this community. How many ppl are we talking about? So, I'm talking about how many ppl silently or actively protest against this new protected format. And you can leave out yourself and those other 5 persons, let's stick to the larger numbers here. I'm talking about those thousands of ppl you're referring to.

BTW, actually, I don't give a flying wet fart about it anyway, it's not my business. The only major thing I requested was to cut it out with the MRC/Bazix linking. The whole DRM thing has nothing to do with MRC. Is it sooo incredibly difficult to just leave it? If you have issues about the choices made in JP then go complain there, but leave unrelated parties out.


b0b: no one's flaming. If discussing equals flaming then you can as well close down the whole internet. :P

And now I'll be zz'ing, I'll read whatever there's to read later.

Short answer :
- it took 4 years for Apple and EMI to change their minds, but what seemed impossible is now a reality
- it will probably request 10 years for the Japanese software companies to change their minds and I won't buy any Woomb product before this change
- MRC not implicated with DRM ? Well, I know at least 2 MRC guys who have accepted that their work is selled with DRM : Sonic and Rikusu. And what concerns Rikusu, I have buyed in the past (before his participation in Bazix) some of his translations in the "conventional" form for the MSX community.

twas tongue in cheek sarcasm, man.. nothing more

there's just too much crap, and it's never going to acheive anything, for anyone

but, to the discussion

apples not using drm on itunes is just a cynical pram/toyflinging action much in the style of steve jobs as the ipod is so successful this is just his traditional way of saying nyaa nyaa and trying to force folk to his way

I'll get burned for that by the apple fanboys but I don't care, they worship the guy whatever he does

emi's gone for it as it makes business sense (or maybe they god handed a big line from apple), no doubt some other companies will come along and be Hmm, no drm, less effort, higher prices, sounds good for the margins

and yes, in the scheme of things, the retro thing as a whole is economically insignificant, as for bazix well, I'm not interested in purchasing their product but then I'm not in their target audience so that doesn't matter either, personally I can't stand drm myself, I find it stops things that I paid cash for working in a logically obvious manner

In conclusion, I have made no points whatsoever (other than my non worship of mr jobs), things are as they were before and are likely to continue in this way for the forseable future

happy easter :D

And this is the heart of the matter!

You just admitted the very essence of MRC-Bazix.

It's always fun to pretend there are more MRC admin's and such, but as you said, they are not maintaining the site like that one other person does.
You can say how many people are in MRC that are not in Bazix, but let's count the number of people in Bazix that are NOT in MRC: 0, ZERO!

Let's also not forget how Bazix was started. It all started with an attempt of snout to make MRC (in stead of Sunrise) a partner for MSX Association. Somehow either they, or after some thought he himself, didn't see MRC itself fit enough, so 90% of the MRC admin's of that time went on under a different name, while still keeping all of their leadership and privileges on MRC. MRC-Bazix had become a fact.

Let's also not forget how snout is claiming to be both MRC Headquarters and Bazix headquarters.

There are plenty of factual reasons to say MRC-Bazix is one entity, with MRC just having some more cruft around it. I just named but a few.

So stop crying and stop pretending. The sooner you end your phase of denial, the sooner you might return to The Real World(tm).

Another brick in the DRM discussion, after the Apple/EMI move :

""In my company (Boonty), we still use DRM to protect some games. We would like to test DRM free games but content owner are still reluctant to do so. The problem with DRM is that it is very often punishing honest people in hope of catching the thieves. Solving the DRM dilemma has always been very tricky and non one has come up with the right solution so far." (Mathieu Nouzareth - Boss of Boonty, a company more important than Bazix)

Source :

http://www.feedshow.com/show_items-feed=1d0be1ff129a8a2ad71687465fe79758

The shock wave created by the Apple/EMI move is only at the beginning !!!

mars: - MRC not implicated with DRM ? Well, I know at least 2 MRC guys who have accepted that their work is selled with DRM : Sonic and Rikusu. And what concerns Rikusu, I have buyed in the past (before his participation in Bazix) some of his translations in the "conventional" form for the MSX community.

So, imagine you work in the local grocery, and you release some musical album at some company using DRM in your free time. Does that mean the whole grocery shop is evil? Because that's exactly what you're saying now.

G: It's always fun to pretend there are more MRC admin's and such, but as you said, they are not maintaining the site like that one other person does.

It's true snout's the best in what he does, compared with other admins and webmasters, but that doesn't mean that it's his intention to have it like a onemanshow. He rather would have other admins to become more active and better. So rather than saying that it's just 'his site', let's insert some nuance by saying that he does most of the work if he wants to keep a certain minimum of quality/quantity, and therefor MRC could be called "snout's site" for the simple reason he has the biggest share of the things we see/read. It does not mean that this onemanshow is his intention tho, he'd rather prefer some other admins to do much more regarding content, but until that moment he simple has to do most of it himself. Especially in march there was less of snout, and more from -say- Ivan, me and tails. Btw, quite a large part of the crew are translators eh, you prolly won't see them at all as most ppl read the English section.

You can say how many people are in MRC that are not in Bazix, but let's count the number of people in Bazix that are NOT in MRC: 0, ZERO!

That number is about to change, or has more or less changed already behind the scenes.

As for the rest, that's Bazix-related, e.g. not my business. I could guess some answers but I could as well talk to my cat, who at least appreciates when I say something.

mars: "apple/emi/boonty story"

Since when does apple/emi/boonty equal Bazix? Who are you to tell how a company should operate? If you don't love it: leave it. What kind of a loony must you be to spend all your time on that, day in day out? Don't you have something better to do?

One of my firsts posts still stands, I'm merely talking to some loonies with a double agenda who spend their loony-time with something that can be ignored if they choose to do so. It's clearly a waste of time. As said, I won't stop what I announced then either. You had your chance, you wasted it, fine, live with it.

I wish Bazix would leave us alone, but they insist on sending C&D's and making nasty insulting phonecalls to various sceners.
They have to choose (snout has to choose); Be commercial and let the scene be, or be a scener and try not to be a complete asshole.

As for your replies to mars2000you, you're completely turning the point around. This demagoguery is exactly what makes MRC the Bazix Propaganda Center. Your support of Bazix' FUD is causing a lot of MSX'ers to quit and others to waste time investigating MRC-Bazix' lies, and yet others to live in fear wondering if they can release their MSX(-related) products at all.

What can't I read here! This is totally absurd and sorry to say totally disrespectful and insulting to the people, including myself, who are working hard in maitaining websites talking about MSX in a different perspective than the MRC. Before classifying Passion MSX and MSX Posse as such, Wolf_, please get to know a little better those two sites and the people behind it and hopefully try to see that without them (and others) we would be over-bored by the one-man show that the MRC provides, with all respect I have to the work accomplished in last 10 years on that site.

If you're read the rest of the replies you could've known the exact persons I was aiming for. You are not among them. I've also summarized some things which are also disrespectful towards MRC, as said or written by the mentioned persons. But no-one seems to care about that, and then you expect me to be respectful towards the sources where these persons write on, or are even moderator on? As said in my longer post on the other page: as soon as the hateMRC-campaign stops I'll stop, then I'll edit that first post and make a genuine apology to you in person. You know, it's not even that I'm against other websites than MRC -not at all-, otherwise I wouldn't be here anyway.
However, I proposed to cool down the situation, I asked with reasonable kindness to leave it if you don't love it, to stop trying to break things and crewmembers, but that didn't work out as you could have read. Maybe you can do it better? Be my guest, actually I would be greatful to you if you can. Until that moment I'm sorry when you feel insulted, it was not my intention to hurt you, my only intention was to let ppl think about how double the whole situation is.

Back to DRM ... More food for the brain :

"Do copy protection firms encourage piracy?

By Nate Anderson | Published: March 13, 2006 - 10:33AM CT

Copy protection is not cool. That's the conclusion of Greg Vederman, editor-in-chief of PC Gamer, who recently had his own run-in with dysfunctional copy protection tech. Of course, no gamer is going to tell you that copy protection schemes enhance her enjoyment of Quake 4, but it's less usual to find a major gaming magazine taking on the issue directly. It's not necessarily the best way to maintain cozy relationships with game publishers, but when those game publishers bundle software which causes crashes and system instability with their programs, it's time to call them out.

It's not hard to see why the publishers use the stuff; after all, no one wants to spend a couple of years on a project only to see their efforts rewarded by flat sales and a robust pirate market. Still, in the quest for better protection, these copy protection schemes have grown in both sophistication and invasiveness. Some schemes now install their own hidden device drivers that monitor your computer's optical drive access, trying to prevent copying and other unapproved uses. (If this sounds familiar, it should. Game copy protection, after all, is just another form of DRM.)

Having entertainment titles muck about with the internals of your system isn't usually a recipe for stability, but what else is a software development company to do? Vederman has looked into his Magic 8-Ball, where all signs point to "Internet delivery."

"As for the larger issue of what happens when you’ve got an industry that is justifiably concerned about losing billions of dollars and consumers who are justifiably concerned about anti-piracy software making their lives difficult, well, you can bet that over the next several years, we're going to see even more games going the secure online-distribution route. For now, that’s the only fool-proof piracy solution (that's also relatively headache-free for consumers) that anyone has been able to come up with."

In the meantime, as our own Ben Kuchera put it when he first covered this story yesterday, "There has to be a better way." That better way would obviously be no copy protection whatsoever, but only dirty hippies and Communists would dare to release popular games without such restrictions. Or would they? Stardock Systems, the small developer of the highly popular new game Galactic Civilizations II, has released the program without any sort of copy protection at all—and it's doing very well. Their philosophy is refreshing: make it easy and compelling for users to stay legal, and they (mostly) will.

"Our primary weapon to fight piracy is through rewarding customers through convenient, frequent, free updates. If you make it easy for users to buy and make full use of your product or service legitimately then we believe that you'll gain more users from that convenience than you'll lose from piracy."

Apparently, such a model worries the makers of copy protection software. Starforce, makers of a product that has triggered much user wrath, went so far as to make a post on its own forums that contained a working URL where BitTorrent users could go to download illegal copies of Galactic Civilizations II (screenshot). This is the same company, after all, that threatens its critics with lawsuits, so such hardball tactics are not particularly surprising. If companies like Stardock can show the industry that good returns are possible without using draconian protection schemes, the protection makers may themselves soon be in need of protection."

Source : http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20060313-6365.html