Autor Tema: Bionic Commando...  (Leído 31785 veces)

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ARTRAG

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Re: Bionic Commando...
« Respuesta #15 en: 17 de Febrero de 2006, 06:30:04 pm »
Actually thos game stay outside the MSX capabilities......

How do you want to implement the extensible arm ? Using sprites or what?
On spectrum the game draws the background in B&W for any character, arm included, but on MSX you cannot do the same, unless you don’t duplicate the speccy game that already exists (and is ugly).

On MSX2, using scr5, you could do the arm using VDP copy on the background, but, scrolling and drawing cannot go together on the poor VDP, as the scrolling is on charge to the VDP copy as well.

On MSX2+ or turbo R, things could go fine, as you can use HW scroll and reserve the VDP copy for the arm and the other animations, but the HW is a little bit demanding, don’t you think?

So what do you propose?

jltursan

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Re: Bionic Commando...
« Respuesta #16 en: 17 de Febrero de 2006, 08:44:43 pm »
Citar
How do you want to implement the extensible arm ?

Hehe, I was talking only about the scroll ;D

Of course the rest of the game could be a PITA. But hey!, implement the extensible arm with sprites is, after all, a good idea. The arm always (IIRC) extends over the head of the main character and never in horizontal direction; not sure right now...

Hard job anyway! ::)
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Re: Bionic Commando...
« Respuesta #17 en: 17 de Febrero de 2006, 11:48:40 pm »
yep, bionic arm extends OVER head for swinging yourself upwards or on 45 degree angle upwards to the left and right, but you can use it also sideways to left and right as a weapon to knock out enemys (thought they recover in next second)...

I have been thinking about bionic arm before I posted this topic....

so could it be nice idea to use hardware sprites for the arm when shooting arm UPwards, and software sprites to make arm go left or right? As when you shoot arm sideways, it extends horizontally at 0 degree angle.

I know, that if we use ONLY software sprites for arm, arm´s background may look kind of blocky, but if every section of arm´s background could have same main colour as scenery under arm has, like arm´s background should be green when it is used against the tree leaves and so on.

And it doesn´t look as "bad" if we can make arm´s background have more colours than just one, just like it is done in MSXdev´05´s "The Cure".  ;)
« Última modificación: 17 de Febrero de 2006, 11:54:25 pm por mäsäxi »

Jon_Cortazar

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Re: Bionic Commando...
« Respuesta #18 en: 18 de Febrero de 2006, 07:38:46 pm »
This thread remembers me other old Magaman discussion, hehehe, but anyway... any game is doable in MSX. I just made a little work on it, to see how it could look on MSX1. Here you have some fake shots:



Again this is my point of view on how to face a conversion. Probably there are other ways but I think this fits the best. Again, think about how is the original Nemesis (arcade) and the MSX conversion of it: comparin' both games, the MSX one could look as crap, but is a GREAT game. Why?. Because it has the original spirit of the game within, and because it do it the best the MSX can: that is the best way to face a conversion of a game with higher specs than the MSX have(always talkin' about MSX1)



The main character would be done using sprites (2 in a row), the same for some of the enemies. Enemies with no movement (or just objects) can be made using patterns. The same goes for all shoots in the game. The expanding arm frames can be done using patterns too (just remember Athletic Land). The thing is that all patterns for "background" tiles should be blank: I tried to hide that problem making a bi-color background (first bank=blue, 2nd and 3rd=green), and a line of mountains that divide that bg color. When horizontal scrolling (8x8 pixels) the mountains will scroll pixel by pixel due to redefinition. When vertical scrolling, that horizon won't move at all. It's tricky, beacuse as it's divided thinkin' on how pattern banks work, there is no process time thinkin' on what bg must have the tile, in the first bank will be blue just by printing it. Anyway, this conversion (as all back-specs conversion) should be studied a lot (more than I did), because I do not know the game in-depths so probably other stages will work differently and i'm missing something ;). But anyway I think this way the game will work and would be fun.

Again, it's better to think this way. Note that the gb, NES, arcade, speccy versions are all VERY different, because they try to make the game fit to the hardware specs. If we think Bionic Commando is imposible to make on MSX(1), then Salamander or Twinbee are impossible to make too ;)
« Última modificación: 18 de Febrero de 2006, 07:41:35 pm por Viejo_archivero »
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Re: Bionic Commando...
« Respuesta #19 en: 18 de Febrero de 2006, 07:52:14 pm »
As always you've done an excelent analysis (and everytime you're faster, too!) of the game, Jon!. Sure the next levels are even more tricky to implement; but if the spectrum has a version, the MSX could have for sure a better one....or maybe I'm a bit enthusiastic here?... ::)
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Re: Bionic Commando...
« Respuesta #20 en: 18 de Febrero de 2006, 08:01:22 pm »
You are not only enthusiastic here, jltursan!  ;D

Those "fake" screenshots look already very promising!! ( why they must be called as fake... they are real screenshots! ;))

They look much like old Sega SG and other similar systems´ megagame screenshots! Ingame shot has really nice old feeling as tree leaves don´t have any details. :) But I must say I envy a bit the spectrum conversion as speccy has tree leaves!  >:( Bad Speccy.   :D

Jon_Cortazar

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Re: Bionic Commando...
« Respuesta #21 en: 18 de Febrero de 2006, 10:42:45 pm »
They look much like old Sega SG

Sure, this design is for an MSX1 conversion, so... ;)

Thanx for your reactions. A single-stage concept proof ROM would be nice, but it will be a very time-consuming task... cmptr:)
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KNM

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Re: Bionic Commando...
« Respuesta #22 en: 19 de Febrero de 2006, 12:56:35 pm »
As always...I love this man !! in a couple of words...A MASTER :god: :god: :god:

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Re: Bionic Commando...
« Respuesta #23 en: 23 de Junio de 2006, 02:03:59 pm »
  because I do not know the game in-depths so probably other stages will work differently and i'm missing something ;). But anyway I think this way the game will work and would be fun.

I read this old topic again, and wanted to add that later stages will work a bit differently, as they don´t have horizon (everything happens indoors).

And as many people seem to worry about "ugly" software sprites as they may have "blocky" look as characters have monochrome "box" around them, I will say, that Konami (and other companies too) games have "blocky" software sprites too, and usually you can´t see anyone complaining about them...  ;)  One of the many examples would be your arrow in Maze Of Galious...  arrow has black box around it. :) I haven´t seen web page where someone is complaining about such thing.

I think bionic commando´s arm will look just fine in MSX conversion.  :)

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Re: Bionic Commando...
« Respuesta #24 en: 23 de Junio de 2006, 08:26:32 pm »
Sorry... I was making a preview screenshot too...  :P

How can I attach it in here?

Leandro Correia

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Re: Bionic Commando...
« Respuesta #25 en: 23 de Junio de 2006, 09:12:18 pm »
I discovered it.
Just in case, my tip for the hook would be simple. Just use one or two sprites that would be going back and forth really fast along the hook trajectory. This way, it would look like a cable and would not be ugly. :)

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Re: Bionic Commando...
« Respuesta #26 en: 24 de Junio de 2006, 08:45:45 pm »
<Long Live Sprites!>---  ;D

Your screenshots do look too Gooood!!!  ;) ;D

by the way, what program did you use to make those two fake MSX screenshots, Leandro?


Viejo, I think that the horizon is not the main element in Bionic Commando  ;) If it appears to be hard to make horizon which does not move along scrolling, then just drop it, it doesn´t affect to gameplay anyway.  :) Most players probably don´t notice at all your programming skills, if there would be realistic non-moving horizon. (how could they know it was very hard to make it? And even if they would know, would they care?) Playable game is the most important thing, nice graphical effects should come after good playability. I think it is enough, if background is just black behind the forest, and when you climb high enough, cyan sky would scroll from the top of the screen, I think it will look good even the horizon will scroll down when you climb upwards. I mean horizon will not scroll by itself, it is just part of the scrolling background.

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Re: Bionic Commando...
« Respuesta #27 en: 24 de Junio de 2006, 09:01:30 pm »
like this......


jltursan

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Re: Bionic Commando...
« Respuesta #28 en: 25 de Junio de 2006, 01:40:01 am »
Grrrreat pics!! :D
I like best the first version Leandro did. The horizon seems a bit unrealistic and the full trees creates a much darker and deeper scenary than with sky. Now we can add the Viejo dual sprites and we'll have a very good looking MSX version.
Btw, the bionic arm sprite trick seems clever; but it could be a bit tricky to implement. If the sprite must move at his maximum speed to fake a full extended arm, it can't be interrupt controlled; so you must implement a main game loop using the interrupt and move this kind of sprites out of it. Doable; but not easy...I think. ::)

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Re: Bionic Commando...
« Respuesta #29 en: 25 de Junio de 2006, 07:26:09 am »
In many games horizon is made simple way just I did it, border of the sky and forest is clearly visible. Of course horizon can easily be made more realistic by brightening colours of the far away tree tops which are closest to horizon. (you can use other bright colours too than just green shades, if you want to make it realistic, it´s very easy, if you just know something about drawing and painting:)) And by adding some certain tree top-characters between trees and sky to "soften" horizon, now it is just cut straight line for simple example.