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Autor Tema: Viewpoint (sammy - neogeo)  (Leído 13414 veces)
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nitrofurano
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« : 11 de Enero de 2006, 10:51:09 pm »



i know is extremelly hard to recode this to msx1 (i tried to simulate a picture with msx1 limitations) - but btw would be very interesting a shooter like this on msx (isometric like this for msx1 i only know Zaxxon...)

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Dioniso
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« Respuesta #1 : 11 de Enero de 2006, 10:57:46 pm »

i know is extremelly hard to recode this to msx1 (i tried to simulate a picture with msx1 limitations) - but btw would be very interesting a shooter like this on msx (isometric like this for msx1 i only know Zaxxon...)



I also remember Bomber.

Have you used your routines to convert a snapshot from another platform? I still use your routines to convert from PC Paint to MSX.

Anyway, redraw the graphics is not the problem here.
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pitpan
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« Respuesta #2 : 11 de Enero de 2006, 11:04:39 pm »

The most difficult problem here is the lack of smooth scroll. Note that a diagonal scroll would be here a problem because could not be made using char scroll 1x1. The perspective used is not 1-1 (45º).
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« Respuesta #3 : 11 de Enero de 2006, 11:05:16 pm »

Cool!, it's a very good conversion to SC2!  Smiley
It's one of the simpler screens of the game, maybe could it be good to try with other screens like the sliding barriers.
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« Respuesta #4 : 12 de Enero de 2006, 10:05:56 am »

Nice screenie, nitro!

Troubles with this one (imo):

- Enemies cannot be done with patterns (due to the detailed background). So ships, shoots, items, etc... should be done using hardware sprites (a lot of flickerin' here!)

- The scroll. If a minimal amount of tiles exist, it can be done using pattern redefinition and name table scrollin each 8 pix. but the scroll must be 2 pix x, 1 pix y (as robys said, it is not a regular angle)... hard, but it can be done.

It could be a nice project... anyone wanting to make a concept proof scroll demo? :wallball:
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« Respuesta #5 : 12 de Enero de 2006, 04:20:50 pm »

O_O WOW! Viewpoint!

Great game (I have the Neo Geo CD version somewhere) but the diffuculty is very high if you are not comforable with the control system.

A bit of practice never hurt tho Wink
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« Respuesta #6 : 12 de Enero de 2006, 06:50:57 pm »

Citar
Enemies cannot be done with patterns (due to the detailed background). So ships, shoots, items, etc... should be done using hardware sprites (a lot of flickerin' here!)

Maybe the non simmetric scroll could help to place the sprites without too much flickering ...after all it's not a classic horizontal shooter.
I believe that using the 3 sprites per object technique, some good result could be achieved. Anyway I'm only guessing.  Roll Eyes

Citar
The scroll. If a minimal amount of tiles exist, it can be done using pattern redefinition and name table scrollin each 8 pix. but the scroll must be 2 pix x, 1 pix y (as robys said, it is not a regular angle)... hard, but it can be done.

Indeed, some really good pattern magic needed here.  Undecided
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« Respuesta #7 : 12 de Enero de 2006, 07:26:00 pm »

Very nice game!On MSX we have several examples of similar purposes,like Zaxxon....And my favourite,DEMAND.Simply,smooth,and very addictive  Cool Cool

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nitrofurano
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« Respuesta #8 : 14 de Enero de 2006, 06:08:53 pm »


Dioniso: the picture were done by hand over a screenshot...

JlTurSan: this drawing is simple to take a look how it should look like - i'm curious to see how all these more complex stuff would look like too

Robsy: as said ViejoArchivero, i imagined scroll like 2x 1y like Xevious - a staired scroll would look more weird (like 1x 1y, 1x, 1x 1y, 1x, etc.. ), but maybe more coerent with the natural scroll combined with the ship motion scroll, as it is in the NeoGeo version (...?)

ViejoArchivero: i imagined hardware sprites for the small enemies, and character-based for the larger ones - the blank background for the character-based sprites would be like an average background colour (...?)
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« Respuesta #9 : 14 de Enero de 2006, 07:07:52 pm »

I've never managed to pass the first stage... Tongue. I'm curious too about how it looks (the original!) in greater levels. Huh
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nitrofurano
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« Respuesta #10 : 18 de Enero de 2006, 02:58:34 pm »

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I've never managed to pass the first stage... . I'm curious too about how it looks (the original!) in greater levels.
afaik there are 4 stages, or more?



Citar
I still use your routines to convert from PC Paint to MSX
i need to improve the converters anyway - there are some results i'm not getting exactly what i wanted - btw i started these converters from more than 6 years ago, and some code i forgot what they used to do...


Citar
Maybe the non simmetric scroll could help to place the sprites without too much flickering ...after all it's not a classic horizontal shooter.
I believe that using the 3 sprites per object technique, some good result could be achieved. Anyway I'm only guessing.
for those small sprites, i think the Knightmare1 technique (3 sprites, using 2 sprites per line as limit) should be fine - for the controlled ship, for example, the bottom as black for the shadow, mid and top were blue and white...



Citar
It could be a nice project... anyone wanting to make a concept proof scroll demo?
i have it a bit in mind, but for me for now would be hard to do it in assembler... :-(

My idea would be a x-offsetting 32 blocks horizontal (128 characters, 1024 pixels) in a vertical scroll - or a bit like it...




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Dioniso
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« Respuesta #11 : 19 de Enero de 2006, 01:21:58 pm »

i need to improve the converters anyway - there are some results i'm not getting exactly what i wanted - btw i started these converters from more than 6 years ago, and some code i forgot what they used to do...

The one I use to convert BMP to SC2 creates some wrong datas, but since I know what the program does, I change the wrong values myself.
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« Respuesta #12 : 24 de Enero de 2006, 06:58:10 pm »

I do remember that "Jet Bomber" had smooth scrolly...  and Sega´s other version of "Zaxxon" also had a lot smoother scroll compared what their  "Zaxxon´85"  had... 
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nitrofurano
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« Respuesta #13 : 16 de Febrero de 2006, 01:32:16 pm »


suggest a game
viewpoint

Citar
It could be a nice project... anyone wanting to make a concept proof scroll demo?


I found this old code i think i told about it before - i didn't test it yet (the variable and array names are too long to msxbasic, anyway...) - is a bit like msxbasic, but it were more a kind of algorythm i were planning to recode in assembler (laziness and lack of skills...)

This code were more for topview scrolling-down games, also scrolling horizontally depending of the x-position of the player (from arcade, just like Vulgus (Capcom) , Ufo Robo Dangar (Nichibutsu), Flying Shark (Taito), etc.)

The code for Viewpoint, Zaxxon, and whatever, wouldn't be that different at all - the map strip seems to be vertical, with a continuous horizontal scroll (with the x position of map mod64 or mod128) 2 times faster than the limited vertical scroll - the scrolling logic is the same

The idea of the code is: the display redraw (y=0..23,x=0..32) would get it from the position we are in the map, assuming usually the 4x4 character cells we would almost all the time get them partially (for this i'm using mod4)- x4 and y4 would read the current cell from the map, and xm and ym would read the current drawing character from the cell choosed from the x4 and y4 from the map

This code would work as well on that multidirectional platform games like (from arcade) Toki, Black Tiger, Ghosts'n'Goblins, etc. (even Sonic...), or even like that multidirectional topview shooters like TimePilot84.

Código:
'- start code
screen 2,1: poke &hfcaf,1
  chraddr=&h1800
  'adr1=map location at memory
  'adr2=4x4characters (32x32pixels) cells location at memory
dim mapchr(32,64) :' mapchr=peek(adr1+x+(y*32))
  dim cellchr(256,4,4) :' cellchr=peek(adr2+x+(y*4)+(n*16))
'- in the game loop, mean location of the display in the whole map
     px=1:py=3
'- map redraw routine
for y=0 to 23
  for x=0 to 31
    po=x+(y*32)
     ex=px+x: ey=py+y
    x4=int(ex/4):xm=ex mod 4     
     y4=int(ey/4):ym=ey mod 4
    v4=mapchr(x4,y4)
     vm=cellchr(v4,xm,ym)
    vpoke chraddr+po,vm
  next x
next y

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nitrofurano
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« Respuesta #14 : 24 de Febrero de 2006, 02:08:10 pm »

viewpoint has indeed 6 stages...

a screenshotted map of screen1 explains a bit my idea about how the game scroll would work (afaik)
http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/9030/viewpointmapstage16fu.png
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