Autor Tema: What about the remake of Ghost'n'Goblins?  (Leído 64235 veces)

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pitpan

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Re: What about the remake of Ghost'n'Goblins?
« Respuesta #45 en: 29 de Enero de 2007, 11:37:24 am »
I think that the preview of the project is really promising, Dvik! I'd say: GO FOR IT!  :D

Jon_Cortazar

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Re: What about the remake of Ghost'n'Goblins?
« Respuesta #46 en: 29 de Enero de 2007, 11:42:03 am »
Or, quoting a real MSX classic, GO FOR THE PUNKTE! ;)

Btw, Mr. Imanok, there was a nice project we were talking about long ago, where 8x8 horizontal scroll would fit really well... are you still considering that project or not? :)
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Dioniso

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Re: What about the remake of Ghost'n'Goblins?
« Respuesta #47 en: 29 de Enero de 2007, 12:03:50 pm »
Or, quoting a real MSX classic, GO FOR THE PUNKTE! ;)

 ;D ;D ;D

Imanok

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Re: What about the remake of Ghost'n'Goblins?
« Respuesta #48 en: 29 de Enero de 2007, 12:17:21 pm »
Wow, then it must be just me, as I think MSX's Adventure Island is a real pain in the ass, comparing it to the enjoyment of the SMS or Gamegear version of Wonderboy ;) . And please note that I love both Wonderboy and Adventure Island games! (that last one has a really brilliant NES version!). The MSX one is, by far, the worst conversion of all systems... and that's not for the gfx, that are btw really cool, but for the scrolling, that takes playability to a lower level.
I haven't played those versions, so I can't tell you if the MSX one is the worse or not... I only say I really enjoyed it although it has 8x8 scrolling. Anyway it was just an example.

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In the other hand, there are nice MSX games with 8x8 scroll that really rock, due to its speedy scroll: games such as Road Fighter, Magical Tree (that has a really nice vertical scrolling routine in which several lines are scrolled at a high speed when needed, instead of doing it line by line)... Magical Kid Wiz is another 8x8 scroller that looks pretty nice, as the scroll is kinda speedy too...
You're right.

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so, ok, a G'n'G with an 8x8 scroll would surely rock too, but I wouldn't lose the oportunity to give a try to a smooth-scrolling project, just to enhance gamer's experience with the platforms and the whole game too... another option would be to scroll 8x8 several columns in a speedy way when a certain xpos is reached...
You know perfectly the CPU cost of the 1x1 scroll and I think G'n'G has A LOT of things to move and to control. It will be really hard to get something similar to the original (talking about playability).

Btw, it would be really nice if the difficulty level is a bit adjusted, because the arcade is really hard.

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but my best option is 1x1 scroll, that's for sure  ;)
I know it for sure!  ;D

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Btw, Mr. Imanok, there was a nice project we were talking about long ago, where 8x8 horizontal scroll would fit really well... are you still considering that project or not?
Of course I'm considering it  ;)

Jon_Cortazar

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Re: What about the remake of Ghost'n'Goblins?
« Respuesta #49 en: 29 de Enero de 2007, 12:20:45 pm »
Of course I'm considering it  ;)

Yay! :D
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KNM

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Re: What about the remake of Ghost'n'Goblins?
« Respuesta #50 en: 29 de Enero de 2007, 01:10:27 pm »
I´m with Jon.Scroll 1x1.It´s a challenge but worths it,sure!

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smooth talktoomuch  ;D
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mäsäxi

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Re: What about the remake of Ghost'n'Goblins?
« Respuesta #51 en: 29 de Enero de 2007, 01:50:20 pm »
Well Imanok, *again, in my opinion* a 8x8 scrolling shooter (or puzzle, or strategy, or RPG) is not the same as a 8x8 scrolling platform game. Perhaps it is just me, but I can't imagine Alex Kidd in Miracle World or Super Mario Bros with a 8x8 scroll and giving the same playability to the gamer...

I think same... in 8x8 scrolling shooter screen is scrolling anyway, even if you don´t move and your movement doesn´t affect scrolling at all... 

in 8x8 scrolling platform  your movement controls scrolling... Adventure Island/Wonderboy is one good example of horrible result using 8x8 scrolling... I have never completed second stage just because it is impossible to jump over certain water area..... probably someone can do it.. but i can´t .... it´s good game, but i can´t stand it because it is so hard to time your jumps as screen scrolls in 8x8 blocks...

I mean... in Nemesis and other 8x8 scrolling shooters scenery is scrolling SLOWLY... blocky scrolling doesn´t spoil gameplay as you have enough time to see what is coming to you.... 

But in 8x8 scrolling FAST platform games, you really don´t have time to see everything as screen scrolls so fast and it is much harder to calculate exact position of you hero for correct jumps as it would be in 1x1 scrolling platforms...


SuperBoy with it´s 8x8 scrolling is playable thought... but there surely are many places where jumping is much much much MUCH harder than it should be just because of 8x8 scrolling....

I guess you got my point.. :)

Imanok

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Re: What about the remake of Ghost'n'Goblins?
« Respuesta #52 en: 29 de Enero de 2007, 02:39:55 pm »
in 8x8 scrolling platform  your movement controls scrolling... Adventure Island/Wonderboy is one good example of horrible result using 8x8 scrolling... I have never completed second stage just because it is impossible to jump over certain water area..... probably someone can do it.. but i can´t ....
If you keep pressed certain key (can't remember now) you can run faster and jump longer.

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it´s good game, but i can´t stand it because it is so hard to time your jumps as screen scrolls in 8x8 blocks...
Maybe it's me, then...

Ok, you don't like Wonderboy example... let's look some more games with 8x8 scroll controlled by the player (both MSX1 or MSX2):

Thexder, Firehawk, Ys 3, Akin, ... do you miss 1x1 scroll in those games?

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But in 8x8 scrolling FAST platform games, you really don´t have time to see everything as screen scrolls so fast and it is much harder to calculate exact position of you hero for correct jumps as it would be in 1x1 scrolling platforms...

This is not because of the 8x8 scrolling... it's because of scroll speed.

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SuperBoy with it´s 8x8 scrolling is playable thought... but there surely are many places where jumping is much much much MUCH harder than it should be just because of 8x8 scrolling....
SuperBoy games are really crappy... and they would with 1x1 scroll too.

pitpan

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Re: What about the remake of Ghost'n'Goblins?
« Respuesta #53 en: 29 de Enero de 2007, 03:22:13 pm »
For me, TAKAHASHI NO BOUKEJIMA is one of the best MSX games. It's amazing to consider that such a long game can be packed in a 32 KB ROM with no advanced compression (Huffman, etc). Block scroll is not a problem if you keep moving, as you should, because the scroll is fast enough to give a smooth finish. I must agree that this changes when you have to move step by step.

Just in case, Masaxi, the keyboard controls are Z and X. Keep one pressed and jump with the other one: you'll get further!

Of couse, for more platform based games, smooth scroll can help. But, once again, design is everything in MSX development.

Jon_Cortazar

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Re: What about the remake of Ghost'n'Goblins?
« Respuesta #54 en: 29 de Enero de 2007, 03:45:15 pm »
But, once again, design is everything in MSX development.

I'll go further: design is everything in game development ;)
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SapphiRe

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Re: What about the remake of Ghost'n'Goblins?
« Respuesta #55 en: 29 de Enero de 2007, 04:16:15 pm »
But, once again, design is everything in MSX development.

I'll go further: design is everything in game development ;)

I'll go even further: in game development, design is everything ;D (Dupont et Dupont may say it)

ARTRAG

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Re: What about the remake of Ghost'n'Goblins?
« Respuesta #56 en: 29 de Enero de 2007, 04:19:53 pm »
Once you decide to use some technical feature like the smooth scroll, you must adapt to that constrain all the other features of the game.

It is mastery of the programmer make that this choice does not affect the playability of the whole game.

This is the main difference between a demo (solely aimed to the technical issue) and a game.

I'm sure dvick will be able to keep the correct blend of all the ingredients (nice technical effects, playability, durability, etc.)
 ;)
« Última modificación: 29 de Enero de 2007, 04:28:48 pm por ARTRAG »

jltursan

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Re: What about the remake of Ghost'n'Goblins?
« Respuesta #57 en: 29 de Enero de 2007, 04:23:11 pm »
First of all I must say that I'm really impressed with the actual status, now this is far from a tech demo!, it's starting to look like a real prototype of game, very promising at all!. Nice work Dvik! :D

Now, my opinions about some questions I've seen exposed in the thread:

- Sprite/character shots: I slighty prefer the character option, it's colourful, fast and has no number constraints. The drawback is how to manage weapons like fire, they could look strange due the 8x8 movement. :(

- IMHO the use of a smooth scroll (ss) or a blocky scroll (bs) leads obviously to a very different graphic approaches, without the ss constraints (resources and complexity) we can focus on the design of GFX full of SC2 color and diversity, also the sprites can even be replaced by character created sprites. The result will be more MSX in the way we're used to; but, as the GnG demo has born as a tech project to show how far the MSX1 can reach, I say go for the 1x1 scroll!.

Doom dee doom dee doom

Imanok

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Re: What about the remake of Ghost'n'Goblins?
« Respuesta #58 en: 30 de Enero de 2007, 09:19:02 am »
Once you decide to use some technical feature like the smooth scroll, you must adapt to that constrain all the other features of the game.

It is mastery of the programmer make that this choice does not affect the playability of the whole game.

This is the main difference between a demo (solely aimed to the technical issue) and a game.
You're totally right.

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I'm sure dvick will be able to keep the correct blend of all the ingredients (nice technical effects, playability, durability, etc.)
 ;)
I don't doubt about dvik capabilities... I only say this may be a great handicap.

mäsäxi

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Re: What about the remake of Ghost'n'Goblins?
« Respuesta #59 en: 30 de Enero de 2007, 01:18:29 pm »
Thanks! I never tried to press BOTH z and x...  :D  I quickly tried game to see longer jump in action and it worked!! Thanks! Must try game some day again when I know this "secret" !  ;)  Ok... so 8x8 scrolling was not causing unplayability to Takahashi... it was just that i didn´t know "the secret" ! ;)

Games you mentioned imanok... Thexder is only game I have played... 8x8 scrolling didn´t bother me in that game. :)