Autor Tema: What about the remake of Ghost'n'Goblins?  (Leído 63996 veces)

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Dioniso

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Re: What about the remake of Ghost'n'Goblins?
« Respuesta #30 en: 27 de Enero de 2007, 12:12:52 pm »
I can't complain. Very good work!

I also had a look at the link you gave with all the maps and sprites ... you have a work there! I hope I see this game finished, dvik. Keep the good work!

Konamito

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Re: What about the remake of Ghost'n'Goblins?
« Respuesta #31 en: 27 de Enero de 2007, 12:45:17 pm »
Impressive demo ;)

Imanok

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Re: What about the remake of Ghost'n'Goblins?
« Respuesta #32 en: 27 de Enero de 2007, 01:20:36 pm »
Nice work, dvik!

A few strange things I've seen:

-When you make use of your flickering routine, Arthur flickers even if he's not in line with the other sprites flickering. I suppose this is all because of the design of Arthur... there are invisible parts of him that are really in line. For example, I've found this situation... three zombies at the upper platform, three zombies at the bottom, Arthur at a certain position on the stairs... and everybody flickering!... You shout take a look at Arthur design... maybe you can make him more compact and take out a few sprites

-Sometimes when you jump and there are some zombies around, there is some sprite corruption on Arthur.

-If you jump from the graves on the upper platform, you get lost on the top and if you continue jumping, you appear again from the bottom of the screen.

About the shoots, maybe it will be better if you use patterns instead of sprites... then you'll be able to shoot more than one shot at the same time and you'll avoid flickering.

About avoiding Arthur flickering... I prefer him to be included, because you get a more simple flickering routine and you get better general results too.

BTW, I wouldn't mind if the scroll is not pixel by pixel. Dedicate all this CPU time to improve the game itself (and improve the graphics, of course). Don't design a scroll and make a game to fit in the scroll... better design a game and make a scroll to fit in the game!  ;) This game would be cool with a 8x8 scroll too (indeed, I vote for that).

Keep on working! All we want to see this game for MSX!!

ARTRAG

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Re: What about the remake of Ghost'n'Goblins?
« Respuesta #33 en: 27 de Enero de 2007, 02:56:08 pm »
Well done dvick!! It is very impressive!!

Here my proposals:

1) You can add the mountains in backgroung and make them fixed. It should be possible to add this detail, even if I do not know how ;-)
2) You can implement the EC bit in the sprite movements (now they jump into the screen on the left)
3) The zombies have the same blue color of the fence on the background. You should change one of the two colors
4) I do not like zombies' heads. I do not know how but heads seems too large and to float.
5) You could rip some GPX from vejos' demo (with his permission).
6) IMHO the main sprite can flick if this improves the overall flickering.
7) Now there is some glitch in the flickering routing. Sprites sometimes disappear even when you don't expect, e.g. while jumping.

« Última modificación: 27 de Enero de 2007, 11:19:55 pm por ARTRAG »

WYZ

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Re: What about the remake of Ghost'n'Goblins?
« Respuesta #34 en: 27 de Enero de 2007, 03:29:28 pm »
Where are the bigger smilies?

Keep on Dvik! you can reach the best on MSX1.

SapphiRe

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Re: What about the remake of Ghost'n'Goblins?
« Respuesta #35 en: 27 de Enero de 2007, 10:53:49 pm »
:o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o
 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

IMPRESSIVE!!

e_sedes

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Re: What about the remake of Ghost'n'Goblins?
« Respuesta #36 en: 27 de Enero de 2007, 11:33:07 pm »
Really good work, Dvik! Come on, we are waiting... :D
sempre fun un valente corredor

dvik

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Re: What about the remake of Ghost'n'Goblins?
« Respuesta #37 en: 28 de Enero de 2007, 02:02:11 am »
Thanks for the comments and feedback :)

Citar
Imho I would leave arthur free from flickering, so the only rotating sprite layers would be enemies' ones.
I've been thinking about that too. One option is to keep the gray part of Artur fixed but let the red part rotate. I haven't tried it but that may work.

Citar
I'm quite curious, how are you planning to implement arthur's shoots?. They will be sprites or patterns?.
I haven't decided but its leaning towards using sprites. From the beginning I wanted to use tiles but it won't work as well as in e.g. nemesis because the background has more details so it won't look as good. Then the handling would be different for the torch and axe since they have the curve. The biggest drawback with sprites is that it really limits arthur to fire one shot at the time. This is maybe not such a big deal, the C64 version does that too.

Citar
I think that Arthur could move a little faster.I´ve tested the demo both 50 and 60hz,and the movement on 60Hz is closer to the original.I don´t know if this is possible,but I like to see Arthur running a bit more Wink

I think that's doable I'd guess that the original arcade was 60Hz. Its no problem to scroll 2 pixels every 5 pixels.

Citar
If you jump near ladders,Arthur gets hooked on it.
I did this on purpose (you need to push the up button while jumping if you want him to stick to the ladder. But I think the original doesn't so I should probably change that.

Citar
-When you make use of your flickering routine, Arthur flickers even if he's not in line with the other sprites flickering. I suppose this is all because of the design of Arthur... there are invisible parts of him that are really in line. For example, I've found this situation... three zombies at the upper platform, three zombies at the bottom, Arthur at a certain position on the stairs... and everybody flickering!... You shout take a look at Arthur design... maybe you can make him more compact and take out a few sprites

Arthur is indeed bigger than what's visible. He is 32 pixels high. Now when you mention it I think I did the bmp to sprite conversion a bit wrong so there will be some extra sprite hiding (think on the bottom part of arthur). But the ladder thing is sortof in the design. The reason is that all scanlines has 5 sprites and then all will participate in the flickering. This can probably not be avoided entirely but it can certainly be minimized by better positioning of the sprites.

Citar
-Sometimes when you jump and there are some zombies around, there is some sprite corruption on Arthur.
You may be right but I think its an illusion. The jumping arthur has three sprites per scanline and they flicker independently of each other so sometimes the left part of arthur is shown and sometimes the right. This makes it look like corruption. All sprite updates are made in back buffers or offscreen (I use two SATs and three SPTs) There can of course be a bug as well ;)

Citar
1) You can add the mountains in backgroung and make them fixed. It should be possible to add this detail, even if I do not know how ;-)
Probably not, because I don't have many tiles to spare ;)

Citar
2) You can implement the EC bit in the sprite movements (now they jump into the screen on the left)
Absolutely. Just haven't gotten to it yet

Citar
3) The zombies have the same blue color of the fence on the background. You should change one of the two colors
4) I do not like zombies' heads. I do not know how but heads seems too large and to float.
5) You could rip some GPX from vejos' demo (with his permission).
The zombies are definately not production quality :) Some (or actually most) gfx is ripped from vijeos demo :)

Citar
7) Now there is some glitch in the flickering routing. Sprites sometimes disappear even when you don't expect, e.g. while jumping.
Yes I've seen it too and the reason is that my sprite tool isn't aligning the sub sprites correctly. Its a very easy fix.
« Última modificación: 28 de Enero de 2007, 02:04:58 am por dvik »

ARTRAG

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Re: What about the remake of Ghost'n'Goblins?
« Respuesta #38 en: 28 de Enero de 2007, 10:34:20 am »
Citar
Citar
1) You can add the mountains in backgroung and make them fixed. It should be possible to add this detail, even if I do not know how ;-)
Probably not, because I don't have many tiles to spare Wink

Why not using sprites? They are taller than the height of the jump of the main character so they does not disturb wrt the 4th sprite limit.
And you can have a sort of parallax :)
« Última modificación: 28 de Enero de 2007, 04:42:24 pm por ARTRAG »

mäsäxi

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Re: What about the remake of Ghost'n'Goblins?
« Respuesta #39 en: 28 de Enero de 2007, 04:20:03 pm »
Vau!   :D  Looks and plays very good so far! Even I didn´t like this arcade soundtrack on Amiga, I do like MSX arrangement very much!!!

Jon_Cortazar

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Re: What about the remake of Ghost'n'Goblins?
« Respuesta #40 en: 28 de Enero de 2007, 08:48:21 pm »
BTW, I wouldn't mind if the scroll is not pixel by pixel. Dedicate all this CPU time to improve the game itself (and improve the graphics, of course). Don't design a scroll and make a game to fit in the scroll... better design a game and make a scroll to fit in the game!  ;) This game would be cool with a 8x8 scroll too (indeed, I vote for that).

dvik: In my opinion, you must keep on working with the smooth scroll. Yes, it is GFX restrictive, but the playability of the game will be FAR better!  ;)
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Imanok

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Re: What about the remake of Ghost'n'Goblins?
« Respuesta #41 en: 29 de Enero de 2007, 09:06:59 am »
dvik: In my opinion, you must keep on working with the smooth scroll. Yes, it is GFX restrictive, but the playability of the game will be FAR better!  ;)

Jon, I think you're wrong. Those are different issues... a game scrolling 8x8 can be as playable as a game scrolling 1x1. Do you think all shooters from Konami have a bad playability because they scroll 8x8??

I'm not against 1x1 scroll... I just don't want to loose playability (and graphical quality) because of 1x1 scroll.

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Re: What about the remake of Ghost'n'Goblins?
« Respuesta #42 en: 29 de Enero de 2007, 09:24:11 am »
Well Imanok, *again, in my opinion* a 8x8 scrolling shooter (or puzzle, or strategy, or RPG) is not the same as a 8x8 scrolling platform game. Perhaps it is just me, but I can't imagine Alex Kidd in Miracle World or Super Mario Bros with a 8x8 scroll and giving the same playability to the gamer...
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Imanok

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Re: What about the remake of Ghost'n'Goblins?
« Respuesta #43 en: 29 de Enero de 2007, 10:03:59 am »
Well Imanok, *again, in my opinion* a 8x8 scrolling shooter (or puzzle, or strategy, or RPG) is not the same as a 8x8 scrolling platform game. Perhaps it is just me, but I can't imagine Alex Kidd in Miracle World or Super Mario Bros with a 8x8 scroll and giving the same playability to the gamer...

I respect your opinion, of course... I just think it's not correct.  ;)

I suppose you have played MSX 'Adventure Island'... this is one of my favourite MSX1 games and I thing it's
playability is great. The same goes for the horizontal cave zones of 'Golvellius', for example.

Anyway... G'n'G is not the kind of platform game SMB o Alex Kidd are. The real challenge of the game are not the platforms.

Of course, if a group makes two versions of the same game with 8x8 scroll and 1x1 scroll, and the playability is the same in both versions, I will prefer the 1x1 scroll version.

Is more than probable that several things according to playability will have to be sacrified to get the 1x1 scroll in a game (and much more if it's a conversion of an existing game).
« Última modificación: 29 de Enero de 2007, 10:06:17 am por Imanok »

Jon_Cortazar

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Re: What about the remake of Ghost'n'Goblins?
« Respuesta #44 en: 29 de Enero de 2007, 11:15:39 am »
Wow, then it must be just me, as I think MSX's Adventure Island is a real pain in the ass, comparing it to the enjoyment of the SMS or Gamegear version of Wonderboy ;) . And please note that I love both Wonderboy and Adventure Island games! (that last one has a really brilliant NES version!). The MSX one is, by far, the worst conversion of all systems... and that's not for the gfx, that are btw really cool, but for the scrolling, that takes playability to a lower level.

In the other hand, there are nice MSX games with 8x8 scroll that really rock, due to its speedy scroll: games such as Road Fighter, Magical Tree (that has a really nice vertical scrolling routine in which several lines are scrolled at a high speed when needed, instead of doing it line by line)... Magical Kid Wiz is another 8x8 scroller that looks pretty nice, as the scroll is kinda speedy too... so, ok, a G'n'G with an 8x8 scroll would surely rock too, but I wouldn't lose the oportunity to give a try to a smooth-scrolling project, just to enhance gamer's experience with the platforms and the whole game too... another option would be to scroll 8x8 several columns in a speedy way when a certain xpos is reached... but my best option is 1x1 scroll, that's for sure  ;)
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