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Autor Tema: Pretty Kingdom is the MSXdev'14 WINNER!  (Leído 29972 veces)
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nerlaska
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« Respuesta #60 : 04 de Julio de 2014, 06:52:11 am »

Ramones .. I love you too Smiley XD (and I'll take you at any RU by band :-) )

And all the people in this forum .. thank you for your support and for your congratulations.

The winner are all the MSX users here and this must be the spirit.
My goal is create a Konami MegaROM and see Armando tears of emotion Smiley but Jon is the culprit because he doesn't let me to exceeds the 32Kb XD

Jokes apart...

I hope MSXdev forum Karoshi and have clarified the controversies with those who have displeased.
We have to look to the future and is currently MSXdev the contest more titles harvest. And we know there are more competitions, there will be something good in this.
Thank you Jon (and PitPan in the shadows)

And the power that has been given me .. I HAVE THE POWER! XD
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« Respuesta #61 : 04 de Julio de 2014, 11:21:04 am »

wow, i got shocked on how this thread got almost in a Godwin’s level, i never imagined that - people, we are a family here! Wink - and yes, let’s everybody keep start having ideas and coding something for msxdev'15, msxdev'16, ..., msxdev'55, on and on! Smiley
« Última modificación: 04 de Julio de 2014, 11:23:41 am por nitrofurano » En línea
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« Respuesta #62 : 04 de Julio de 2014, 07:47:50 pm »

I apologize beforehand for throwing fuel on the fire here, but I think this is too important to ignore. Personally, I'd like to stay neutral on the matter even though I have my opinions. This is an objective observation.
I was curious why Artrag was so upset about the banning of Ramones's vote, it seemed like an exaggeration. Then I had a look at the global ratings for clues.

Citar
PRETTY KINGDOM
Global -> 8.4 // ( V->9 / A->7 / P->7 / F->9 )
Global -> 8.0 // ( V->8 / A->7 / P->8 / F->9 )
Global -> 9 // ( V->9 / A->9 / P->9 / F->9 )
Global -> 7.2 // ( V->7 / A->7 / P->7 / F->7 )
Global -> 8 // ( V->8 / A->7 / P->8 / F->8 )
Global -> 9.0 // ( V->8.5 / A->7 / P->8 / F->9 )
Global -> 7.5 // ( V->7.5 / A->7 / P->6 / F->9 )
Global -> 9 // ( V->8 / A->9 / P->10 / F-> 9 )
Global -> 9 // ( V->9 / A->8 / P->8 / F->9 )
Global -> 9.7 // ( Visuals->10 / Audio->9 / Playability->10 / Finish->10 )-> 39/4 = 9.75 points
Global -> 7 ( V-7 / A-7 / P-8 / F-7 )
Global -> 7.75 // ( V->8 / A->7 / P->8 / F->8 )
Global -> 9 // ( V->8 / A->7 / P->8 / F-> 9 )
Global -> 8 // ( V->9 / A->10 / P->8 / F->8 )
Global -> 6 // ( V->7 / A->5.75 / P->5 / F->6 )
Global -> 8 // ( V->7.2 / A->6.5 / P->7.8 / F->8 )
Global -> 7
Global -> 8
Global -> 7.25 // ( V->8 / A->6 / P->8 / F->7 )
Global -> 8.75 // ( V->9 / A->8 / P->9 / F->9 )

 
URIDIUM
Global -> 8.2 // ( V->9 / A->6 / P->7 / F->8 )
Global -> 7.0 // ( V->5 / A->8 / P->7 / F->8 )
Global -> 8.7 // ( V->7.5/ A->7.5/ P->7 / F->9 )
Global -> 8.0 // ( V->9 / A->7 / P->8 / F->8 )
Global -> 8.5 // ( V->9 / A->8 / P->8.5 / F->9 )
Global -> 8.5 // ( V->8 / A->8 / P->7 / F->8 )
Global -> 8 // ( V->8 / A->8 / P->8 / F->9 )
Global -> 8 // ( V-> 9 / A-> 7 / P-> 8 / F-> 9 )
Global -> 9 // ( V->9 / A->7 / P->8 / F->9 )
Global -> 6.5 // ( Visuals->7 / Audio->7 / Playability->7 / Finish->9 )-> 30/4 = 7.5 points (-1)
Global -> 8,5 ( V-9 / A-8 / P-8 / F-9 )
Global -> 7.5 // ( V->8 / A->7 / P->7 / F->8 )
Global -> 7 // ( V->7  / A-> 6 / P-> 7 / F-> 8 )
Global -> 6 // ( V->7 / A->6 / P->6 / F->7 )
Global -> 6.5 // ( V->6.5 / A->4.5 / P->6 / F->6.5 )
Global -> 8.5 // ( V->9 / A->6 / P->8 / F->9 )
Global -> 9
Global -> 8
Global -> 7.25 // ( V->8 / A->6 / P->7 / F->8 )
Global -> 8.5 // ( V->9 / A->8 / P->8 / F->9 )

Both have 20 votes total.
Pretty Kingdom: 8.0775
Uridium: 7.8575

Ramones banned vote:
Pretty Kingdom: 1
Uridium: 6.75

Result including Ramones:
Pretty Kingdom: 7.74
Uridium: 7.80
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« Respuesta #63 : 04 de Julio de 2014, 08:19:05 pm »

Hap, you don't have read this comment by Artrag on MRC :

Citar
I do not want to be polemic or spoil the fun, but I'm not proud at all on how the contest has been conducted: Msxdev has just become the place to solve inner fights among karoshi users and, apart the result (and I'm the first to admit that PK deserve winning), I find unacceptable how Jon moved deadlines and decided to invalid votes. Having lost any interest in msxdev I deleted my karoshi account.

So, his reaction is not about the consequences of counting or not the Ramones vote, but it's a position of principle.

Besides, I had myself made the same verification BEFORE the deadline and I could have reacted by a counter-vote to neutralize Ramones vote, but I have not done that also by principle, first because I had decided to not vote this year, secondly because it should be inconsistent to make something that I disapprove for another person.

« Última modificación: 04 de Julio de 2014, 08:24:08 pm por mars2000you » En línea

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« Respuesta #64 : 04 de Julio de 2014, 10:03:27 pm »

I'm a bit late but...

First of all, congrats to Nerlaska for winning the contest Wink
 
About all the other stuff already commented, just my point of view:

I think invalidating Ramones/Kralizec votes wasn't a good choice. Anybody can agree or not with them, but what is not fair is invalidating them because they are not "nice". Once you give people the right to vote, you do it with all the consequences.

What it's important after all, much more than numbers (which can lead to (un)fair comparisons), is making a ranking to decide which is the best entry for most of the people... so, maybe it's a better idea, to skip numeric scores and just provide an ordered list for all games. It just gives a clear list of people preferences about all contest entries. Besides that, only the games themselves have to be considered to cast the votes, not the efforts nor the authors.

If the organization had disqualified non fully compatible entries (as it's stated at the rules), all this mess wouldn't have happened at all. The same happens with incomplete/beta entries... although the authors think they are supporting the contest by presenting them at all means, I personally think that those entries harm contest reputation. I also understand that saying this edition has finished with 10 entries is cooler than 5, of course... but I think it's better to finish them properly (needless to say that next competition would start with 5 complete games instead of 0).

I agree with being positive... but also with being critical, so that we can get better and better games in the future.
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« Respuesta #65 : 04 de Julio de 2014, 10:06:09 pm »

I apologize beforehand for throwing fuel on the fire here, but I think this is too important to ignore. Personally, I'd like to stay neutral on the matter even though I have my opinions. This is an objective observation.

If that's correct, the matter gets even worse...  Undecided

Does your list include ARTRAG votes??... I think he deleted them.
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« Respuesta #66 : 04 de Julio de 2014, 10:15:39 pm »

Besides, I had myself made the same verification BEFORE the deadline and I could have reacted by a counter-vote to neutralize Ramones vote, but I have not done that also by principle, first because I had decided to not vote this year, secondly because it should be inconsistent to make something that I disapprove for another person.
Mars, you keep talking about respect about others and their work, but at the same time you keep on pushing against Ramones/Kralizec, again and again... you both think different about the quality of MSXDev games (and MSX in general, for sure), that's it... it really seems it's you who hates him/them. I think we should be respectful before claiming for respect.
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« Respuesta #67 : 04 de Julio de 2014, 11:12:50 pm »

Besides, I had myself made the same verification BEFORE the deadline and I could have reacted by a counter-vote to neutralize Ramones vote, but I have not done that also by principle, first because I had decided to not vote this year, secondly because it should be inconsistent to make something that I disapprove for another person.
Mars, you keep talking about respect about others and their work, but at the same time you keep on pushing against Ramones/Kralizec, again and again... you both think different about the quality of MSXDev games (and MSX in general, for sure), that's it... it really seems it's you who hates him/them. I think we should be respectful before claiming for respect.

Because Hap has exposed something that I had decided to not expose, I've been forced to show that everyone (including you or me) could have the same extremely negative approach as Ramones, but fortunaly, it's not the case. I have respected the spirit of the contest in my choice to not 'counter-vote'. Seriously, you should have preferred that I would have 'counter-voted' ? I don't think so.
« Última modificación: 04 de Julio de 2014, 11:27:40 pm por mars2000you » En línea

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« Respuesta #68 : 04 de Julio de 2014, 11:54:40 pm »

Citar
I've been forced to show that everyone (including you or me) could have the same extremely negative approach as Ramones, but fortunaly, it's not the case
Have you been forced? really?  Huh

Anyway, I was not talking about just your previous post... and not only about your posts here at Karoshi.

Citar
I have respected the spirit of the contest in my choice to not 'counter-vote'. Seriously, you should have preferred that I would have 'counter-voted' ? I don't think so.
You said you wouldn't vote and you didn't... that's being consistent... what I don't understand is why you (like other people) decided not to vote from the beginning. How that helps the contest??
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« Respuesta #69 : 04 de Julio de 2014, 11:57:56 pm »

I should have preferred non-public votes (by private mail) and publication of these votes only after the deadline. I think this way some problems could been avoided.
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« Respuesta #70 : 05 de Julio de 2014, 06:24:33 pm »

For myself looking from the outside, the problem is obvious.

People takes too seriously the harsh comments from some people known for making harsh comments. The course of action should be the same as ever in forums "don't feed the troll"

Given that there is people trying to sabotage what they doesn't like, it was a big mistake to not have judges.

What Ramones did was incredibly unpolite and harsh, but he has the right to vote because the contest allows it.

Secondly, the contest explicitely says TMS9918/9928 video processor or compatible, so if the entries doesn't work in Toshiba VDP, this is implicitely allowed by the contest.

Thirdly, exercising an entry for full MSX compatibility in a non-commercial contest like this one simply puts too much burden in new developers, and it's harsh to demand full compatibility with some obscure machine. THIS IS NOT THE ACID TEST! it's simply a contest for fun! don't let us lose these new developers just because one or two people.

Myself I'll write a new MSX game very soon (well as soon as I've free time), just for the sake of fun Wink
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« Respuesta #71 : 05 de Julio de 2014, 09:41:59 pm »

What it's important after all, much more than numbers (which can lead to (un)fair comparisons), is making a ranking to decide which is the best entry for most of the people... so, maybe it's a better idea, to skip numeric scores and just provide an ordered list for all games. It just gives a clear list of people preferences about all contest entries.

This is exactly what we do in #msxdev Compo.
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« Respuesta #72 : 05 de Julio de 2014, 09:42:26 pm »

For myself looking from the outside, the problem is obvious.

People takes too seriously the harsh comments from some people known for making harsh comments. The course of action should be the same as ever in forums "don't feed the troll"

Given that there is people trying to sabotage what they doesn't like, it was a big mistake to not have judges.

What Ramones did was incredibly unpolite and harsh, but he has the right to vote because the contest allows it.

Secondly, the contest explicitely says TMS9918/9928 video processor or compatible, so if the entries doesn't work in Toshiba VDP, this is implicitely allowed by the contest.

Thirdly, exercising an entry for full MSX compatibility in a non-commercial contest like this one simply puts too much burden in new developers, and it's harsh to demand full compatibility with some obscure machine. THIS IS NOT THE ACID TEST! it's simply a contest for fun! don't let us lose these new developers just because one or two people.

Myself I'll write a new MSX game very soon (well as soon as I've free time), just for the sake of fun Wink

+1
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« Respuesta #73 : 05 de Julio de 2014, 10:19:30 pm »

The problem is people don't understand what "compatible" means. TMS9918-compatible does not mean "exactly like TMS9918", but it means "according to the TMS9918 specifications". MSX is all about compatibility, not about exact ways of doing things. With the reasoning used by some people here, YM2149 is not compatible with AY-3-8910, which it obviously is. Just like the T6950 is TMS9918-compatible.

But if the rules say "TMS9918 or compatible" this is an ambiguous statement. Is the compatibility required, or can you choose to only work on TMS9918? The meaning of "or" is ambiguous, but the intention is clear: to be MSX v1.0 compatible.
« Última modificación: 05 de Julio de 2014, 10:22:24 pm por GuyveR800 » En línea

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« Respuesta #74 : 05 de Julio de 2014, 11:44:17 pm »

We already discussed about the tms9918 in this thread not long ago.

I also mentioned some weeks ago I would use the mix mode and no one said anything.

Now everyone is complaining and voting 1 for some games which used this feature of the tms9918.

Again: coders spend a loooooooot of time in these games and this year we didn't get many feedback: feedback is what motivates us to keep doing games. Instead of appreciating our dedication of coding games for you all, some people look for the mistakes, problems, controvertial points and cast their votes or make their comments just (mostly) taking this into account.

I am not a big company, I don't have a team working for me the whole day, the whole week, the whole month, the whole year. I don't have the resources a big company has. I live in a flat, stand up at 6:00 for going to work, and when I come home I keep coding a game for you (and for me). This means also weekends closed in my flat just coding, drawing, etc ... And I got twice 1 point. Hahahahaha. I laughed at first and didn't want to say anything at all but I'm getting tired of this behaviour and the same problems in the forum as always.

I also read in another forum that my game stinks and more nice things like this one. I can understand many people don't like my game(s) and it is something totally normal. I understand that if people don't like my game, they cast a "low" vote, obviously. But, what I find childish is the way some people comment a game, or how people have complaint about the tms9918 features used in some games.

If you take into account the rules, you can vote 1 for every game, if you want to. But that's very poor for someone to do. I can understand a 4, a 5, a 6 ... but 1 point ... Smiley please. I am good with the 4th position.

I don't know if you realize what these few people do to the MSX community.

I left the MRC community because of these people who just cause this damage, right after the Kralizec incident, as comradeship.

I repeat it: I can understand a low punctuation if you don't like a game. I accept the critics, when they are constructive.

Well, I don't want to read always the same people discussing things like they had the only truth. And I don't want to code games for people who don't appreciate my effort.

Code your games yourselves. Bye.
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