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Autor Tema: Pretty Kingdom is the MSXdev'14 WINNER!  (Leído 29069 veces)
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pitpan
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« Respuesta #15 : 03 de Julio de 2014, 12:02:16 pm »

Congratulations to all the teams and especially for the winner!

MSXdev'14 has brought us a bunch of new MSX titles and that was the original spirit that materialized the MSXdev contest: to let us all enjoy brand new productions for our first generation computers in this century.

Of course, different teams have produced different titles, according to their available spare time, knowledge and resources. Sadly, and as in any contest, it is the result that has to be judged and not the relative efforts. I hope that you all understand that.

In its now already long history, MSXdev has changed and adapted, but some problems are, in a way, hard to solve: how to deal with "compatibility issues" and the jury/voting system. In my opinion, compatibility is important but not paramount at the time being. And about the voting system, I think that the one currently used is quite good: an overall score not directly related to the individual aspects, that is cast, shared and explained/justified in a public forum. This provides transparency but can also lead to people trying to "game" the system.

I'd also like to thank the organizers, that's it, Jon aka viejo_archivero, for keeping the contest alive and devoting long hours to the management of the forum and contest. He has had to take difficult decisions and he has been forced to deal with controversies that were born far from this forum and brought here. Please be supportive: as a moderator/organizer is not easy to deal with these situations and *any* line of action would be eventually misinterpreted by some. Even if he doesn't need it, he has my full support in this particular case and in any future controversies. As organizer he has to assume difficult decisions and I want to publicly thank him for doing it.

And let me just ask you one question: which of the following options do you prefer?

1) No new games at all.
2) New games, even if some of them could be a bit buggy, not that good and/or have some compatibility issues under some circumstances.

I'd vote 2. And I guess that most of you will also choose the same.

And, in any case, keep the fun and please don't bash neither the programmers nor the contest itself.

Thank you all.

P.S: Looking forward for MSXdev'15!
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« Respuesta #16 : 03 de Julio de 2014, 01:50:09 pm »

- where is the rule to impose Toshiba VDP compatibility ? This VDP is non-standard and comes only on some machines, so testing the games only on these machines and giving only 1 point for non-Toshiba compatibility is not acceptable.
Lies.
Toshiba VDP perfectly complies with the MSX standard.

In fact, all software that depends on UNDOCUMENTED BEHAVIOUR not described in the MSX standard is not fully MSX compatible. As this is a MSX contest, these games should have been disqualified until they were fixed to comply with the MSX standard.


The question of if the Toshiba VDP complies with the standard is not simple. MSX Thecnical Data Book claims that de VDP have to be a TMS9918A or compatible. Texas instruments has documented the behavior of mask bits that affect the 'Mixed mode' in their official books for accelerating action in games, and succesors of the chip mantain the compatibility. So, in my own opinion, the Toshiba isn't a 'compatible' TMS.


It is simple. It's totally compatible. Never Konami, Compile, HAL, ASCII, Casio, Namcot and any other had a problem with that VDP cause they respect the standard. Even the crappy spectrum conversions worked on that VDP without a problem.
At the end, if you decide to use that mode, it's your choice and I have to respect it. But give an 1 for that is my choice too. Giving a 9 or 10 to a game that doesn't deserves it seems respectable but giving an 1 doesn't?
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« Respuesta #17 : 03 de Julio de 2014, 01:50:45 pm »

Btw... almost forgot!

Congrats to the winner!
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« Respuesta #18 : 03 de Julio de 2014, 02:47:45 pm »

Congratulations to the winner, Nerlaska, and all the rest for all his work!!!

These days, I haven't had much free time, so I only had the chance to play the games at the RU, but I have to say that this moment was so funny, like a boy with new shoes.

Playing a lot of new games in the "arcade area" translated me to my childhood. Thanks to all, and long life to MSX!!!  laugh
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« Respuesta #19 : 03 de Julio de 2014, 02:54:36 pm »

I wrote from my mobile phone as I was working but it seems something went wrong  Huh

So again: congratulations to all participants and specially to Nerlaska and his team. We now have some good new games to play with Smiley
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burguera
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« Respuesta #20 : 03 de Julio de 2014, 03:12:36 pm »

I was trying to reply on the other thread, but it is closed. Too bad, because now the Winner thread is spoiled with other things. So, to start: congratulations, Nerlaska!

Said that, two things. First, I fully agree with AR.
Second: that's the text I tried to post to the other thread before realizing it was closed:

Citar
Have some posts being removed or the whole thread leading to Jon's reaction is this one?

If no post has been removed, then, Jon, your reaction is exagerated. You may not agree with Kralizec votes. I have not tested all the games, but I am sure that after playing them I would not agree with all of the Kralizec votes. But invalidating them because Karoshi don't like their opinions is not the right way to act. I, personally, don't believe the actual reason for invalidating their votes are the MSX-Dev rules.

But, even if the rules actually state what you say, the "STATEMENT FOR FORMER KRALIZEC MEMBERS" is not admissible at all. Every member who has voted has voted for its own reasons: realtive to other games, absolute, whatever. That should not happen as the rules should specify how to vote. But, if Kralizec states that their votes are casted on an absolute scale (i.e. so that all MSX games could be compared), vote in consequence and explain their reasons, that do not deserve the kind of message you posted. To be honest, I may not agree with their votes but I agree, and probably everybody here, with their comments.

So, in my opinion, you should remove your last post, admit your error and accept Kralizec votes.

I am a bit out of the MSX scene recently, but if this kind of things are happening I will leave the MSX scene permanently.

Of course, if I missed some message where Kralizec said unpolite things because they have been removed, then please excuse me.
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« Respuesta #21 : 03 de Julio de 2014, 03:34:39 pm »

I don't have seen any unpolite things, but I consider insulting for the coders who have given so much time and passion to create a new game to get only 1 point as final score when the concerned game is really playable on almost all MSX (and higher) machines, with exception for a few machines equipped with the Toshiba VDP. This extreme severity is an obvious sign of no-respect of their work. When I compare attitude of coders, I prefer the positive approach of Imanok and Jon for example.
« Última modificación: 03 de Julio de 2014, 03:36:24 pm por mars2000you » En línea

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« Respuesta #22 : 03 de Julio de 2014, 03:36:47 pm »

Citar
but if this kind of things are happening I will leave the MSX scene permanently.

Sad to hear it MrSpock: I hope sometime you could see that all I want to do is just to make the spirit of the contest prevail, by facing both easy decisions and harder ones. I've been doing it since years and I will keep on doing it.
« Última modificación: 03 de Julio de 2014, 03:39:43 pm por Jon_Cortazar » En línea

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« Respuesta #23 : 03 de Julio de 2014, 03:47:43 pm »

We can agree more or less with Jon's decision but I think it's good to keep in mind that who is adding, creating and dedicating efforts (and not breaking) for the MSX scene is Jon.
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« Respuesta #24 : 03 de Julio de 2014, 03:55:28 pm »

Sorry, but I don't understand the argument of somebody, castigating too much games because don't work well with some VDP in one side, and comparing them with them with big companies' games in the other...

Is this a development contest or something else? Please, "keep calm and develop MSX games"   Griel

And again, congratulations to Nerlaska!!!  Wink
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« Respuesta #25 : 03 de Julio de 2014, 04:04:28 pm »

Sorry, but I don't understand the argument of somebody, castigating too much games because don't work well with some VDP in one side

Well, I don't understand why to make a game -on purpose- that doesn't work on all MSX when you can make a game that works on all MSX as rules say.
And as I don't understand that, I can't vote with more than 1 those games. I understand and respect if you vote with more, but I can't vote myself with your opinion, I have to vote with mine.
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« Respuesta #26 : 03 de Julio de 2014, 04:09:38 pm »

I don't have seen any unpolite things, but I consider insulting for the coders who have given so much time and passion to create a new game to get only 1 point as final score when the concerned game is really playable on almost all MSX (and higher) machines, with exception for a few machines equipped with the Toshiba VDP. This extreme severity is an obvious sign of no-respect of their work. When I compare attitude of coders, I prefer the positive approach of Imanok and Jon for example.

Of course, that's a matter of taste. I myself found that some of their votes were too low. About the "game not working on strange MSX configurations"... they should work. And, as long as the contest rules do not clarify this issue, it is correct for the users to vote them down. Prior to submitting my game on 2007 (wow... 7 years!) I spend a *lot* of time to make it fully compatible with all MSX. So... should the games that made this effort be rated using the same criteria than those that did not made the effort? If so why should anybody do the effort?

Nevertheless, that's not the problem. The problem is invalidating their votes and banning them with sort of "take care of your business" message.

So, I may not agree with their votes, but I do agree with their reasons. And I am sad about the decision of "banning" them because their opinion is not the same as the official forum opinion. Sorry to say that, but this gives me the feeling that this is sort of private Karoshi forum rather than an open MSX forum.

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but if this kind of things are happening I will leave the MSX scene permanently.

Sad to hear it MrSpock: I hope sometime you could see that all I want to do is just to make the spirit of the contest prevail, by facing both easy decisions and harder ones. I've been doing it since years and I will keep on doing it.

Jon, it is not a matter of easy or hard decisions. It's a matter of correct decisions, and in this case yours is not. Your point of view about MSX may be different from mine, and mine for sure is different from Kralizec, but that's not a reason neither for your message neither for invalidating their votes. The right thing to do is to admit your error and say so in the forum.
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« Respuesta #27 : 03 de Julio de 2014, 04:18:41 pm »

We can agree more or less with Jon's decision but I think it's good to keep in mind that who is adding, creating and dedicating efforts (and not breaking) for the MSX scene is Jon.

And you, and all the contestants, and Kralizec, and me...
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« Respuesta #28 : 03 de Julio de 2014, 04:22:52 pm »

The right thing to do is to admit your error and say so in the forum.

Sorry, my position is pretty clear about this. Thank you anyway for trying to help me on doing what you think it's right!


We can agree more or less with Jon's decision but I think it's good to keep in mind that who is adding, creating and dedicating efforts (and not breaking) for the MSX scene is Jon.

Nah, not at all. Just want to keep up with the spirit of the original MSXdev created by pitpan! Everyone here (and at other MSX communities, of course) *is* an active part of the scene! ;-)
« Última modificación: 03 de Julio de 2014, 04:25:18 pm por Jon_Cortazar » En línea

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« Respuesta #29 : 03 de Julio de 2014, 04:25:51 pm »

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Well, I don't understand why to make a game -on purpose- that doesn't work on all MSX when you can make a game that works on all MSX as rules say.
And as I don't understand that, I can't vote with more than 1 those games. I understand and respect if you vote with more, but I can't vote myself with your opinion, I have to vote with mine.

Hey, you can vote what you want, but I think all games can have errors because developers are all human.

In any case, the big error for me is comparing them with the big companies' games, like Konami, Compile, etc, in a development contest.
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